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Sin
Feb 9, 2007 17:31:44 GMT -8
Post by Soleia Reiss on Feb 9, 2007 17:31:44 GMT -8
Those are good verses.
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Sin
Feb 9, 2007 20:00:03 GMT -8
Post by TFE on Feb 9, 2007 20:00:03 GMT -8
The reason I'm no longer posting here is that I find I become ill (like, seriously, physically ill) whenever I participate in anything like this. So, if I stumble across verses that support my position, I'll post them, but until then, I'm out.
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Sin
Feb 9, 2007 20:15:54 GMT -8
Post by Soleia Reiss on Feb 9, 2007 20:15:54 GMT -8
Okay, that's alright. I'm sorry you're ill, I'll be praying for you.
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Sin
Mar 4, 2007 23:16:15 GMT -8
Post by jmcmatt on Mar 4, 2007 23:16:15 GMT -8
1 John 1:8-10
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
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Jacinth Visor
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"I am not just a man vastly lost in this world, lost in a sea of faces." Credits: 8,500
Posts: 789
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Sin
Mar 5, 2007 10:41:00 GMT -8
Post by Jacinth Visor on Mar 5, 2007 10:41:00 GMT -8
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." He's talking about when you're a sinner and you claim to be sinless. If God cleanses and purifies us from our sin, what else is there? Did He clean us only for sin to remain there? No.
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Sin
Mar 5, 2007 12:02:11 GMT -8
Post by Soleia Reiss on Mar 5, 2007 12:02:11 GMT -8
I agree with Jace. If we read back a few verses we'll see just what those verses are talking about. 5"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." In God is no darkness at all, that means a sinner cannot be in God. 6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:" If we call ourselves Christians and live in sin we lie. 7"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." So, here it's saying that the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin, so verse 8 cannot turn around and say that we all have sin because verse 7 just told us Christs' blood cleanses us from all sin. Verse 8, rather, is a confirmation of verse 6. 8"If we say that we have no sin (when we do), we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." As Jace pointed out, again verse 9 says that the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sins. Verse 10 says if we say we haven't sinned we make God a liar. Yes, if I said I have never sinned then I'm making God a liar because His word says all have sinned. I have sinned in the past, but I repented and am not living in sin right now.
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Sin
Mar 5, 2007 13:08:18 GMT -8
Post by Jango Reiss on Mar 5, 2007 13:08:18 GMT -8
I agree with Jace. If we read back a few verses we'll see just what those verses are talking about. 5"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." In God is no darkness at all, that means a sinner cannot be in God. 6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:" If we call ourselves Christians and live in sin we lie. 7"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." So, here it's saying that the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin, so verse 8 cannot turn around and say that we all have sin because verse 7 just told us Christs' blood cleanses us from all sin. Verse 8, rather, is a confirmation of verse 6. 8"If we say that we have no sin (when we do), we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." As Jace pointed out, again verse 9 says that the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sins. Verse 10 says if we say we haven't sinned we make God a liar. Yes, if I said I have never sinned then I'm making God a liar because His word says all have sinned. I have sinned in the past, but I repented and am not living in sin right now.The only problem with that is it doesn't say in the Bible :When we do have sin:, because we always have sin. God cleans the previous sin from us that we committed, not all the future sin. He'll forgive us if we admit that future sin though. If he already forgave us for that future sin, then we could sin all we want and not get in trouble.
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Sin
Mar 5, 2007 22:54:57 GMT -8
Post by Soleia Reiss on Mar 5, 2007 22:54:57 GMT -8
I agree with Jace. If we read back a few verses we'll see just what those verses are talking about. 5"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." In God is no darkness at all, that means a sinner cannot be in God. 6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:" If we call ourselves Christians and live in sin we lie. 7"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." So, here it's saying that the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin, so verse 8 cannot turn around and say that we all have sin because verse 7 just told us Christs' blood cleanses us from all sin. Verse 8, rather, is a confirmation of verse 6. 8"If we say that we have no sin (when we do), we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." As Jace pointed out, again verse 9 says that the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sins. Verse 10 says if we say we haven't sinned we make God a liar. Yes, if I said I have never sinned then I'm making God a liar because His word says all have sinned. I have sinned in the past, but I repented and am not living in sin right now.The only problem with that is it doesn't say in the Bible :When we do have sin:, because we always have sin. God cleans the previous sin from us that we committed, not all the future sin. He'll forgive us if we admit that future sin though. If he already forgave us for that future sin, then we could sin all we want and not get in trouble. Right, God does not cleanse us from future sin, I agree with that, and I'm not saying it becomes impossible to sin after we are saved, just that we should fight hard not to; if we do sin after salvation, however, we must repent for it. But, immidately after the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin, will or must we sin again? No, sin is a conscious choice, it's not something we're going to do accidentally, we are able to choose not to. No, that particular verse in 1 John doesn't say "when we're in sin" likewise it does not say "when we are saved", but we must take it in context with the surrounding verses.
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Jacinth Visor
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"I am not just a man vastly lost in this world, lost in a sea of faces." Credits: 8,500
Posts: 789
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Sin
Nov 2, 2007 11:29:02 GMT -8
Post by Jacinth Visor on Nov 2, 2007 11:29:02 GMT -8
In response to what Ulan said in the Joseph her husband thread: I'm sorry if you disagree, but you're not perfect. I'm not perfect. Jacob isn't perfect. We're all sinners. Either way, this isn't the place to argue about it. “Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” Galatians 5:19-21No sinner will inherit the kingdom of God, they won't be able to enter into Heaven because of their sin. “Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world,” Philippians 2:14,15Blameless, without fault...faultless means to be perfect. “For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness.” 1 Thesselonians 4:7We are called to be holy. Not to walk around proclaiming that we are sinners. “Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” 2 Timothy 2:19For those of you who don't know, iniquity is sin. Dude, it's telling us to DEPART from iniquity! Not run around and scream, "I'm a sinner saved by grace!" We WERE sinners but we're saved by grace and set free from the bond of sin! (Romans 6:6-8) “Pursue peace will all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled.” Hebrews 12:14,15Here you have it, without holiness no man will see the Lord. The Lord will wash away your sins but once you sin you're no longer holy. We're supposed to train ourselves, to grow in the Lord and learn to be blameless and holy. If we sin we have forgiveness waiting for us, but that doesn't mean we continue to sin. “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?” Romans 6:1,2That verse puts a stop to any assumptions that we can walk around sinning all we want and claiming that it's alright because we're saved by grace! It says that we SHOULDN'T continue in sin. How shall ANYONE how died to sin live any longer in it??? And those aren't my words those are words straight from the Bible! Don't harden yourselves to the truth. If you just look into the Word you'll see it right there. This is all I'll post in fear of getting tl;dr'd. But I have plenty more verses just in case you aren't convinced.
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Sin
Nov 2, 2007 12:19:28 GMT -8
Post by jmcmatt on Nov 2, 2007 12:19:28 GMT -8
tl;dr.
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Sin
Nov 2, 2007 13:29:56 GMT -8
Post by Soleia Reiss on Nov 2, 2007 13:29:56 GMT -8
Hey Ulan, come on, if you're going to say all people are sinners then you'd better prove it (scripturally); otherwise, you've got no business accusing Jace or Mel of being one.
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Jacinth Visor
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"I am not just a man vastly lost in this world, lost in a sea of faces." Credits: 8,500
Posts: 789
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Sin
Nov 2, 2007 14:28:20 GMT -8
Post by Jacinth Visor on Nov 2, 2007 14:28:20 GMT -8
tl;dr. It seriously is not
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Sin
Nov 2, 2007 15:05:36 GMT -8
Post by Nathan Jey'Daan on Nov 2, 2007 15:05:36 GMT -8
“What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?” Romans 6:1,2That verse puts a stop to any assumptions that we can walk around sinning all we want and claiming that it's alright because we're saved by grace! It says that we SHOULDN'T continue in sin. How shall ANYONE how died to sin live any longer in it??? The difference, at least on my part, is where I believe that the idea of not living in sin means you don't DESIRE to sin, whereas a non-christian may just do whatever they want to because in their minds, they aren't bound to Jesus. We, as Christians, desire to live a righteous life to the best of our ability, but we WILL be tempted and we WILL fall at times, yet at the same time, we don't go out intending to sin or simply not caring if we sin. I believe we're supposed to strive to live a perfect life to the best of our ability, you believe it is actually attainable, and that is where we differ.
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Sin
Nov 2, 2007 17:48:16 GMT -8
Post by jmcmatt on Nov 2, 2007 17:48:16 GMT -8
Hey Ulan, come on, if you're going to say all people are sinners then you'd better prove it (scripturally); otherwise, you've got no business accusing Jace or Mel of being one. I see no point in arguing with Mel, Jace, or yourself anymore. Some of your ideas fall into the same category as some of my parents beliefs. I see no point in arguing if it's not going to change anything. “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?” Romans 6:1,2That verse puts a stop to any assumptions that we can walk around sinning all we want and claiming that it's alright because we're saved by grace! It says that we SHOULDN'T continue in sin. How shall ANYONE how died to sin live any longer in it??? The difference, at least on my part, is where I believe that the idea of not living in sin means you don't DESIRE to sin, whereas a non-christian may just do whatever they want to because in their minds, they aren't bound to Jesus. We, as Christians, desire to live a righteous life to the best of our ability, but we WILL be tempted and we WILL fall at times, yet at the same time, we don't go out intending to sin or simply not caring if we sin. I believe we're supposed to strive to live a perfect life to the best of our ability, you believe it is actually attainable, and that is where we differ. That's my general viewpoint, as well.
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Sin
Nov 2, 2007 20:14:23 GMT -8
Post by Jango Reiss on Nov 2, 2007 20:14:23 GMT -8
That's my general viewpoint, as well. Mine too.
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