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Sin
Feb 7, 2007 19:37:11 GMT -8
Post by TFE on Feb 7, 2007 19:37:11 GMT -8
A misread of Ulan's post, really. I didn't see that "decent amount of time" part, or, possibly, it didn't register.
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Colleen MqCray
Galactic Citizen
I?ve learned to never underestimate the impossible! (6,365)
Posts: 1,196
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Sin
Feb 7, 2007 19:43:25 GMT -8
Post by Colleen MqCray on Feb 7, 2007 19:43:25 GMT -8
Ah,OK. My take on this is that yes, once we are saved, we should be able to keep from sinning on a regular basis. Of course, when we first come to the Lord, there is much we need to learn that we have been doing wrong. But the sincere Christian should always take admonishment and correction from the elders and stop their sinful ways.
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Sin
Feb 7, 2007 19:46:55 GMT -8
Post by TFE on Feb 7, 2007 19:46:55 GMT -8
TFE, TFE, TFE... I just spent a whole post explaining how it is through God that we attain perfection. I do believe everything in the bible is truth, and that it's wrong to accept parts and discard others; it all fits together. I'm willing to look at any verses you share if you will do the same with the ones I give. You say I'm crazy, but people thought the same thing about Jesus, so I'll take that as a compliment. Romans 3 is speaking of the world prior to salvation through Jesus Christ when it says "there is none righteous". It goes on to say "there is none that seeketh after God", that can't be talking about Christians because the Christian does seek after God, yes? It goes on to state that "now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe..." Apart from Christ there is none righteous, but through Him all who believe are made righteous. And now, what of Jesus' command to "go and sin no more" and to "be perfect" and to overcome? In all those examples, save the last two, you consistently say "through God" we're made perfect. Yeah, I'll agree to that. It's nothing we do, though. Go without praying, without reading your Bible, without going to church for a while, and without relying on God at all for a while, then come back and let me know how you do. I have no quarrel with that.
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Jacinth Visor
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Sin
Feb 7, 2007 19:56:28 GMT -8
Post by Jacinth Visor on Feb 7, 2007 19:56:28 GMT -8
sorry, you're not making sense to me
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Sin
Feb 7, 2007 19:57:53 GMT -8
Post by TFE on Feb 7, 2007 19:57:53 GMT -8
Possibly not.
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Colleen MqCray
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I?ve learned to never underestimate the impossible! (6,365)
Posts: 1,196
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Sin
Feb 7, 2007 20:08:47 GMT -8
Post by Colleen MqCray on Feb 7, 2007 20:08:47 GMT -8
I believe the point TFE is making, is that if you go w/o filling your mind and soul w/ God's word... go without reading the Bible, praying, and going to church for further instruction in His Word, then it would be very easy to backslide.
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Jacinth Visor
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Sin
Feb 7, 2007 20:10:55 GMT -8
Post by Jacinth Visor on Feb 7, 2007 20:10:55 GMT -8
Well if that's the point he's making, then I agree Though, not with the church part, I don't think it's necessary for growing in God's Word Prayer and reading, though.. Though church is good for fellowship and strengthening and encouragement
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Sin
Feb 7, 2007 20:13:38 GMT -8
Post by TFE on Feb 7, 2007 20:13:38 GMT -8
I believe the point TFE is making, is that if you go w/o filling your mind and soul w/ God's word... go without reading the Bible, praying, and going to church for further instruction in His Word, then it would be very easy to backslide. Yeah, that was pretty much it.
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Sin
Feb 7, 2007 20:36:29 GMT -8
Post by Soleia Reiss on Feb 7, 2007 20:36:29 GMT -8
TFE, TFE, TFE... I just spent a whole post explaining how it is through God that we attain perfection. I do believe everything in the bible is truth, and that it's wrong to accept parts and discard others; it all fits together. I'm willing to look at any verses you share if you will do the same with the ones I give. You say I'm crazy, but people thought the same thing about Jesus, so I'll take that as a compliment. Romans 3 is speaking of the world prior to salvation through Jesus Christ when it says "there is none righteous". It goes on to say "there is none that seeketh after God", that can't be talking about Christians because the Christian does seek after God, yes? It goes on to state that "now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe..." Apart from Christ there is none righteous, but through Him all who believe are made righteous. And now, what of Jesus' command to "go and sin no more" and to "be perfect" and to overcome? In all those examples, save the last two, you consistently say "through God" we're made perfect. Yeah, I'll agree to that. It's nothing we do, though. Go without praying, without reading your Bible, without going to church for a while, and without relying on God at all for a while, then come back and let me know how you do. I have no quarrel with that. Hmm, I think I should clarify just what I believe. I'm getting the impression that you think I believe once we are saved we have no further need for God because we're perfect, but that's not what I'm saying. Here's what I'm saying: we will all choose to sin at some point in our lives prior to salvation, when the need for Jesus Christ is realized in our lives and we make the willfull choice to invite Him to be our Lord and Savior He pardons our crimes, washes our sins away and brings us into His kingdom; we are made perfect (or rather our heart is made perfect in the sense that it is sinless). After salvation we are still able to sin, and will be faced with temptations to do so, but God will always provide a way out of those temptations so that when we sin we are without excuse, we can never say "God I had to sin, you didn't give me enough strength!" becuase God has told us there is no such thing as too great a temptation. If we fall it's usually likely becuse we haven't been diligent in our walk with God. Yes, resisting temptation at first will likely be hard as we carry some old baggage (habbits) with us from our past life as we come into the kingdom. As we make the choice to press further into God He will help us drop those habits. A relationship with God is two-sided, it requires our obedience and His leadership, if we choose to obey, He will guide us, strengthen us, help us overcome past habits of sin. Once we are saved, our walk still depends greatly upon God, for without Him we will fall back into sin. That's the point, if we're following God we should have the strength to resist sin! If you're interested in seeing anymore verses I will gladly share. As for how long I've gone without sinning and how long I believe someone can go without sinning... I don't mark the days on the calandar that I go without sinning , I just know that there are times when I can't even remember the last time I sinned. I've realized that the more my heart is focused on following God, the less I am tempted and fall into sin. When I do sin I usually ask God's forgiveness as soon as I realize it and pick up where I left off. As for how long someone can go without sinning, I believe a mature Christian can go the rest of their lives without sinning if they are diligent. Why not? God said we can overcome. I'm not at that point yet, sadly I do fall sometimes, but I surely hope to sin less and less as I mature in the Lord.
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Jacinth Visor
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Sin
Feb 7, 2007 20:43:16 GMT -8
Post by Jacinth Visor on Feb 7, 2007 20:43:16 GMT -8
I don't keep track of how long I go without sinning. It's not in the back of my mind or anything, then only time I notice is if I'm having a bad day and am messing up a ton.
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Sin
Feb 7, 2007 20:51:15 GMT -8
Post by Soleia Reiss on Feb 7, 2007 20:51:15 GMT -8
I believe the point TFE is making, is that if you go w/o filling your mind and soul w/ God's word... go without reading the Bible, praying, and going to church for further instruction in His Word, then it would be very easy to backslide. Yeah, that was pretty much it. I agree with that (well, except I don't go to church, but I do study the bible).
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Sin
Feb 7, 2007 21:18:24 GMT -8
Post by Soleia Reiss on Feb 7, 2007 21:18:24 GMT -8
I didn't say anything about Paul, so I wanted to throw another comment in real quick. I agree with Alexis, that when Paul refers to himself as a sinner he is talking about how sinful he was before he came to Jesus. "And I thank Jesus Christ our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief." 1 Tim. 1:12,13
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Colleen MqCray
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I?ve learned to never underestimate the impossible! (6,365)
Posts: 1,196
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Sin
Feb 7, 2007 21:30:38 GMT -8
Post by Colleen MqCray on Feb 7, 2007 21:30:38 GMT -8
Thank you, Igatta.
I will also add, one must be careful taking just one verse to prove a point and not looking at the verses around it. The verse TFE pointed out made it look like Paul was referring to himself as being a sinner in the present tense, but when you look at what's around it, you see that he was saying that he was chief among sinners, and yet, by the grace of God, he was saved. I take it from the KJV, 1 Timothy 12 - 16 and highlight the part TFE referred to:
12And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting
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Sin
Feb 8, 2007 12:10:07 GMT -8
Post by Soleia Reiss on Feb 8, 2007 12:10:07 GMT -8
I agree, and that makes sense. Also, the same writer in the second letter of Timothy says "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2:19)
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Jacinth Visor
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Sin
Feb 9, 2007 14:52:04 GMT -8
Post by Jacinth Visor on Feb 9, 2007 14:52:04 GMT -8
I have found two verses today that reminded me of this discussion. "Blessed are those who keep His testimonies, who seek Him with the whole heart! They also do no iniquity; They walk in His ways." Psalm 119 2,3 "Let my heart be blameless regarding Your statutes, that I may not be ashamed." verse 80 They were just random verses that I thought I'd share
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