The Effects of Communism

[darthdodo]

I found something very interesting on Wikipedia, that really shows the effect of communism and socialism on a country. Just a miniature detail...

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Earthlights_dmsp.jpg

Go over to Korea (East of China, West of Japan) and notice the almost EXACT borderline between North and South Korea of lights. South is the Free Market, free country. North is the country dominated by communism and socialism.

Here's South Korea (to show off the border)
wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/images/time/asia/korea-s.jpg

Now obviously, just because a nation doesn't have lights doesn't mean it's a socialistic country. And just because it's a socialistic country doesn't mean it's gonna be dark, but still. The exact detail of the lights ending exactly at the border is amazing! If anything shows what the end result of communism is, it's this.

[Jango Reiss]

Because obviously with Obama as president, this is where we'll end up someday.

Also, that first link is so big that it locked up my computer.

[darthdodo]

Here's a smaller link of just Korea.
wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/n-s-korea.jpg

I did not say I beleive we'll end up that way with Obama as President. Yes, he is a socialist, but one man can only do so much harm in 4 to 8 years, and we've come way to far for us to just black out to nothing.

I'm surprised at you, Jango. Talking with you in private on MSN you agreed with me that Obama would wreck the economy and that you had changed your mind about him; thinking that Obama didn't need to be our President. But now you act sarcastic towards anyone who speaks on any issue against Obama (not that this thread was anyway directed towards Obama, but rather towards Korea). Maybe to appear on the side of others that treat conservatives like dirt? Perhaps it's because conservatism looks "uncool"?

Yes, the issues surrounding Obama has got me doing research on every country that has accepted communism. My posting of this thread has been a notice I've taken of a completely different country who has grasped communism.

I might also mention the African nations that are in poverty because of socialism, as well as greed from their leaders. Most African countries, because of communism, are poor as dirt and starving, and when countries like America and Britain send relief money, the leaders steal most of it and squander it on their lavished living! Problem is, our countries continue to send money over there, despite this fact, without dealing with the situation!

[darthdodo]

May I also mention Nigeria. There are four tribes, Yoruba, Ibo, Hausa, Fulani.

Ibo has been less influenced by British rule and has experience little urbanization. They cling to witchcraft and animism. Hausa is dominated by Islam and Fulani are stuck with military dictatorship. Yoruba, had Christianity brought to them by British and have flourished because of it. The three other tribes hate Yoruba and try to influence it with what has brought it down, with no success. Even Civil Wars have broke out! Now, it could be said, it's not Christianity that has brought success to Yoruba, but just westernization.

... well... let's look at Ethiopia. The ancient Aksum embraced Christianity in the 4th Century through the influence of Frumentius and Aedesius, Syrian brothers from Tyre (in Lebanon), who converted King Ezana. Christianity flourished despite the fact that Islam kept it blockaded from the rest of the Christian world for nearly 800 years. In the 1800's they began their modern Ethiopian country under Menelik II away from Islam, which has helped the Christians thrive today. Communism tried to take a hold, but in 1991 they drove them out and began rebuilding their land. Despite all this, years of communism, civil war and tribal conflicts have made Ethiopia one of the poorest countries in the world. But I guarantee you, if it weren't for Christianity and the free market, they would be crippled entirely today. Ethiopia had no western influence whatsoever!

A whole lot of African countries today have gold, gems, silver, iron, coal, but they are poor. It's a steriotype that all African nations are poor, but that's just not true. It's not their location that makes them poor, it's communism and greed. Both restrict them from doing much with their resources, and instead only help the leaders live their lavished lives. South Africa is a good example of a nation that can achieve independence away from Communism and foreign control and thrive, like it was meant to! You know the funny thing? They have a free market, and are dominantly CHRISTIAN! ;D

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

[jmcmatt]

Communism in itself is the most effective way to regulate markets and maintain a wealthy country. The problem with most communistic countries isn't communism itself, but greedy dictators. The lack of light in North Korea has nothing to do with communism, and everything to do with Kim Jong Il.

You also have an inflated view of South Africa. While compared to other African countries it seems successful, it is currently has the most protested government in the world. I quote from wikipedia:
"In post-apartheid South Africa, millions of South Africans, mostly black, continued to live in poverty, though poverty among whites, previously rare, has increased greatly. While some have partly attributed this to the legacy of the apartheid system, increasingly many attribute it to the failure of the current government to tackle social issues, coupled with the monetary and fiscal discipline of the current government to ensure both redistribution of wealth and economic growth."

Westernization is often seen as a good thing, because it's been "successful" for us. The success of a western style economy and government, like any other form, has more to do with political and religious backdrop than the inherent effectiveness of any form of government. I realize that you prefer to believe that there is only one effective form of economic control, government, and religion, but it doesn't work out that way in real life. Forcing our style of government on a country that is not receptive to it is useless. The only way to successfully "westernize" any country, and especially Arab countries, would be forced religious conversion, and execution of all who oppose it. To successfully adapt a new form of government and still be legal and moral, change has to come from inside the existing structure.

I'm not going to reply after this, like I've said multiple times before, there is no point arguing with someone with your specific views.

[Jango Reiss]

I don't remember saying that he'd wreck the economy, but I did vote for McCain, I'll admit that. I'm willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt and say that he'll do a good job.

[Jedi Knight Taeris]

Id like to point out that this is imperfect communism. True communism (on paper) is the best theorised form of government

[darthdodo]

Obama: Trick or Treat:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8AJn_j014Y

Explaining Barack Obama's Socialism:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=46rvfj0lJRQ&feature=related

[darthdodo]

Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and an egalitarian society characterized by equal opportunities for all individuals. ~ Wikipedia

You work, then you receive based on what you work for, and then you pay taxes to help the government. True socialism says you, and everyone else works, and then everyone gives what they work for to the government and let them pay everyone back with what they think you should have. What happens when some of the workers decide to stop working because they get money anyway? What about the people who, from the beginning, haven’t worked? The people you see sitting on the porches, drinking beer, playing card games and smoking cigarettes? That’s something city people will never know are the lazy. They only see three categories, the working, the lazy homeless, and the homeless who, in most situations, cannot help their “caste”. The bums and hobos love socialism, why? Because they get their “check in the mail”, even if taxes are raised to cancel out that check.

“But what happens to the widows, sick and homeless?” many ask. According to the Bible, it is the church’s responsibility to take care of the widows, sick and homeless. We do have hospitals to help as well. But a lot of families today are selfish and instead they place their loved ones in rest-homes. The churches are too busy “doubling in a decade”, building $500,000 life-centers they cannot afford on State-Headquarters’ land (in other words, not their own land). The churches are too busy and in debt to care for the widows and homeless. So who takes care of them? Papa-government. The hobos and lazy just get stuck in the middle of this redistribution. This drags the rich people who worked their way up, down to middle-class. It drags the poor hobos who lazed their way around, up to middle-class. How does this help? It lets hobos smoke more, drink more and party more, causing more problems in neighborhoods.

It sounds bad, but the lazy and hobos need to work for starve. You think that’s cruel? It’s just what John Smith said after proving that socialism doesn’t work! Socialism does not work, nor will it ever.

[darthdodo]

Dec 5, 2008 12:57:31 GMT -8 Jedi Knight Taeris said:

Id like to point out that this is imperfect communism. True communism (on paper) is the best theorised form of government

Give me one nation that's theoretically improved because of communism?

[darthdodo]

I'm guessing that the fact that nobody has replied means that there is none?

Look, I've done some more research and I do want to come back and apologize for one thing. Communism does, indeed works on paper, in a way. But because it'll never work in real life, because of the laziness of people, then honestly, on paper it is folly. Same as stating on paper that everyone living a sinless life will work (yes, I'm bringing in my religion). Everyone has sinned, yes. Some will continue to sin. All you can do is have faith in God to strengthen you so that he can deliver you from sin. If each person does this, then of course, life would be void of complications as a result of sin. But because there will ALWAYS be someone that will refuse to give up their sin, saying that being completely sinless will fix the world is just not going to work.

In the Bible, is instructs men how to achieve a sin free life through Jesus Christ, but obviously it states that not every man will come to Christ, therefore in this sinful world, we will never see complete freedom from sin. Communism is the same thing (in a way. ).

Yes, a sin free world is not presently possible.
Yes, communism is not possible.

So, I'll agree with Jedi Knight Taeris that on paper it works. But it will never work beyond that parchment.

[Jango Reiss]

Well, you can't really say that it will never work, because it may work someday in the future. You can say that it probably won't ever work, but you can't also say that it never will.

[darthdodo]

Is this world we live in, communism will never work because there will always be someone who will take advantage of the system, which, with communism, is made very easy.

Can you honestly say that before the Lord sets up His kingdom, that everyone will have no desire to cheat the system and everyone will work like they ought to?

[Nathan Jey'Daan]

Dec 10, 2008 19:18:23 GMT -8 @darthdodo said:

Is this world we live in, communism will never work because there will always be someone who will take advantage of the system, which, with communism, is made very easy.

Can you honestly say that before the Lord sets up His kingdom, that everyone will have no desire to cheat the system and everyone will work like they ought to?

It's unlikely, but not impossible. You can't say with complete certainty that it won't work, nor that it will work. Unless of course you're the Doctor. He knows whether it works in the future.

[darthdodo]

I have no idea who the "Doctor" is. (I'm guessing it's some character from your video games ).

I do have complete certainty it will not work. The political beliefs that Communism stands on is complete foolishness! It assumes that every man is perfect and will strive to help the system. Look around people, is this so?

I'm still waiting for someone to give me just one nation as an example of how Communism helped them.