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Post by Jedi Knight Taeris on Mar 31, 2008 16:59:35 GMT -8
Obama has plenty of experience. If he wins the Democratic nomination, I'll vote for him. I vote for the person based on who I think will do a good job. I don't not vote for someone because I disagree with their religion or other life choices, unless it's something huge. Anyways, either let's move this to the Presidential thread, or get back on topic and forget this. But when that person could be our president, their religion and life choices are going to influence the entire nation- if you don't agree with who they are, you're not going to agree what they want our nation to be. Who they are is a mini version of who they want America to be. Somebody can know all there is to know about politics, war, etc. and still know nothing about the things in life that really matter. I would rather have a president with a good heart than one with a big head. You voted for bush didnt you? (not that thats a bad thing, he was the better of two evils in both elections) But I believe when it comes to a good heart and what-not, the only candidate lacking is Clinton.
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Post by Jango Reiss on Mar 31, 2008 20:50:01 GMT -8
Obama has plenty of experience. If he wins the Democratic nomination, I'll vote for him. I vote for the person based on who I think will do a good job. I don't not vote for someone because I disagree with their religion or other life choices, unless it's something huge. Anyways, either let's move this to the Presidential thread, or get back on topic and forget this. But when that person could be our president, their religion and life choices are going to influence the entire nation- if you don't agree with who they are, you're not going to agree what they want our nation to be. Who they are is a mini version of who they want America to be. Somebody can know all there is to know about politics, war, etc. and still know nothing about the things in life that really matter. I would rather have a president with a good heart than one with a big head. Not necessarily. It sounds like what you're saying is that if Obama becomes president, he'd make everyone be Muslims or something. George W. Bush didn't make everyone become Christians when he was president, and it doesn't seem like he used it to influence his decisions much. It's not like Islam is a horrible religion, either. So they don't agree with what you believe, so what? It won't kill the country.
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Post by Jedi Knight Taeris on Apr 1, 2008 12:35:09 GMT -8
I personally just want them to have a faith. I dont care if theyre Christian, Muslim, Agnostics, Satanists, WHATEVER. Just that they believe there is a higher power guiding their actions. I personally would never vote for an Atheist . . becuase if you believe theres nothing after this life, Whats the point of following any rules or doing what is best for anyone?
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Post by Soleia Reiss on Apr 1, 2008 20:49:01 GMT -8
But when that person could be our president, their religion and life choices are going to influence the entire nation- if you don't agree with who they are, you're not going to agree what they want our nation to be. Who they are is a mini version of who they want America to be. Somebody can know all there is to know about politics, war, etc. and still know nothing about the things in life that really matter. I would rather have a president with a good heart than one with a big head. Not necessarily. It sounds like what you're saying is that if Obama becomes president, he'd make everyone be Muslims or something. George W. Bush didn't make everyone become Christians when he was president, and it doesn't seem like he used it to influence his decisions much. It's not like Islam is a horrible religion, either. So they don't agree with what you believe, so what? It won't kill the country. All I was saying is that our persident's personal thoughts, beliefs, lifestyle- whatever we may call it, is going to affect the way he runs the country, the agenda's he supports or doesn't support. I wasn't saying that Obama was going to make everyone become Muslims, Obama doesn't even claim to be a Muslim himself. I just don't trust Obama, he seems really prideful, and pride blinds leaders. But more than that I cannot vote for someone who supports things like partial birth abortion which is the murder of innocent babies as they are born. That in itself should be enough to turn any American who has a heart away from voting for this guy. And what do you mean it's not like Islam is a horrible religion? Don't be so ignorant- these people will do anything if they've gotten it into their heads that it's Allah's will- including blow themselves up to take a few people down with them.
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Post by TFE on Apr 1, 2008 21:31:14 GMT -8
And what do you mean it's not like Islam is a horrible religion? Don't be so ignorant- these people will do anything if they've gotten it into their heads that it's Allah's will- including blow themselves up to take a few people down with them. Generally speaking, that's true of any religion. If you became convinced that God wanted you to blow yourself up and take others with you, let's just say that I'd be staying far away from you.
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Post by Jango Reiss on Apr 1, 2008 21:34:36 GMT -8
Not necessarily. It sounds like what you're saying is that if Obama becomes president, he'd make everyone be Muslims or something. George W. Bush didn't make everyone become Christians when he was president, and it doesn't seem like he used it to influence his decisions much. It's not like Islam is a horrible religion, either. So they don't agree with what you believe, so what? It won't kill the country. All I was saying is that our persident's personal thoughts, beliefs, lifestyle- whatever we may call it, is going to affect the way he runs the country, the agenda's he supports or doesn't support. I wasn't saying that Obama was going to make everyone become Muslims, Obama doesn't even claim to be a Muslim himself. I just don't trust Obama, he seems really prideful, and pride blinds leaders. But more than that I cannot vote for someone who supports things like partial birth abortion which is the murder of innocent babies as they are born. That in itself should be enough to turn any American who has a heart away from voting for this guy. And what do you mean it's not like Islam is a horrible religion? Don't be so ignorant- these people will do anything if they've gotten it into their heads that it's Allah's will- including blow themselves up to take a few people down with them. I want a leader who has pride. I don't want some president who doesn't have any faith in himself and his ability to run the country. "Don't be so ignorant." Hahahahahah! Haven't you ever heard of Christians blowing up abortion clinics and killing people because they claim that Jesus wants them to do it or that God hates abortion so it's ok? That's the exact thing as Muslims blowing themselves up because they feel that it's their God's will to do what they're doing. I think it shows more faith on their part to go as far as they do than any other religion. Some will call it stupid, but if you think about it, if you felt that God wanted you blow yourself up because it was his will, would you actually do it? You may call me ignorant, but I've never met someone so ignorant as you when it comes to religion. You're so freakin' obsessed with yours, that you think that every other one is horribly bad.
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Post by Soleia Reiss on Apr 4, 2008 22:59:40 GMT -8
I want a leader who has pride. I don't want some president who doesn't have any faith in himself and his ability to run the country. Self-confidence and pride are two different things. Yeah, I have, but then anyone who does that isn't a true Christian no matter what they claim, because it goes against the bible. Judgment belongs to God. lol No, because again, it goes against the bible, and God wouldn't countradict Himself in telling me to blow myself up when He's already written that it's wrong to murder. If it came to denying God or dying though... yeah, I'd choose death. I wouldn't believe something unless I was convinced that it's the only truth there is. Interesting you respect Muslims for being so "obsessed" with their religion that they blow themselves up and murder people for not being Muslims... but talk as though it's a bad thing for me to take a mere verbal stand for Christianity? Anyway, this debate isn't about religions, and I don't want to argue with you, so I'll just leave. No hard feelings, Jango, and no offense intended on my part. Iggy out.
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Post by darthdodo on Apr 5, 2008 11:18:55 GMT -8
It's TBN and radical Christians that give true Christians a bad name. There ARE people who kill people claiming they're Christians, and there are people who don't kill people and are generally good people claiming their Islamic...
Those are the exceptions. It starts with the root. The Bible and the Korran. The Bible states against killing unless it is the capital punishment of a murderer.
Korran:
Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme. (Surah 2:190-)
Idolatry is everywhere! Love of money! Love of food! They consider Christians idolaters. Basically kill anyone who is not Islamic. These are quotes out of the Koran, mind you.
Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. (Surah 2:216)
The only true faith in God's sight is Islam. (Surah 3:19)
Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage. (Surah 3:118, 119)
Forbidden to you are...married women, except those you own as slaves. (Surah 4:20-, 24-)
Seek out your enemies relentlessly. (Surah 4:103-)
The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins? (Surah 5:18)
Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. (Surah 5:51)
Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme. (Surah 8:36-)
Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued. (Surah 9:27-)
Islam COMES from the Koran! It is a religion based on hate! I could keep posting, and maybe I will sometime!
Christianity is based on love for others and trying to save others from their sins. The Bible teaches love, but it also teaches the punishment for sinners. But punishment is God's, not our's. We don't go and kill! It's sicko's like you mentioned that give true Christians a bad name!
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Post by Jedi Knight Taeris on Apr 5, 2008 11:57:05 GMT -8
It's TBN and radical Christians that give true Christians a bad name. There ARE people who kill people claiming they're Christians, and there are people who don't kill people and are generally good people claiming their Islamic... Those are the exceptions. It starts with the root. The Bible and the Korran. The Bible states against killing unless it is the capital punishment of a murderer. Korran: Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme. (Surah 2:190-) Idolatry is everywhere! Love of money! Love of food! They consider Christians idolaters. Basically kill anyone who is not Islamic. These are quotes out of the Koran, mind you. Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. (Surah 2:216) The only true faith in God's sight is Islam. (Surah 3:19) Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage. (Surah 3:118, 119) Forbidden to you are...married women, except those you own as slaves. (Surah 4:20-, 24-) Seek out your enemies relentlessly. (Surah 4:103-) The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins? (Surah 5:18) Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. (Surah 5:51) Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme. (Surah 8:36-) Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued. (Surah 9:27-)Islam COMES from the Koran! It is a religion based on hate! I could keep posting, and maybe I will sometime! Christianity is based on love for others and trying to save others from their sins. The Bible teaches love, but it also teaches the punishment for sinners. But punishment is God's, not our's. We don't go and kill! It's sicko's like you mentioned that give true Christians a bad name! Those 'sickos' you mention have plagued the word for hundreds of years. The horrid crimes of the Crusades and the Roman empire. The crap Christian Missionaries did to the American Indian 'savages', and so many other Native people to numerous countries. In the end, it doesnt matter who worships what god, or who praises what idol, or even what fanatic cult you are apart of. They are all corrupted in some fashion and generally breed hate and discontent.
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Post by Jango Reiss on Apr 6, 2008 0:42:00 GMT -8
I'm not trying to defend Islam and Muslims, I'm just sick and tired of you Christians bashing the crap out of it because it goes against you're faith. I'm not Muslim, nor do I support anything the Koran says, I'm just trying to show you that it's not a bad thing to actually be accepting of other people/religions. It doesn't mean you have to think they're true, but try treating those who believe in it like people instead of heathens like you (Iggy and Mel) both do. You seem to instantly assume that just because they believe a religion that you think is wrong, that they're going to burn in Hell and that they're stupid for not believing what you do.
Doesn't the Bible say for it's followers to love everyone, especially those who hate you? Instead, even though you say that you love God and the Bible, you're not even following what it says, just following what you want to so that you can feel good about yourself and think you're being a good Christian, but you're not.
Anyways, that's all I have to say and I'll say the obvious "Get back on topic."
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Post by darthdodo on Apr 6, 2008 13:14:55 GMT -8
The Bible does indeed say for us to love everyone. Hate is not our goal in life, but we must uphold the standard high, not doing so in a way to openly critic others and rub it in their face. If I have openly been a snob to anyone purposely then I ask your forgiveness, but at the same time you must remember that most everyone who does not live by Biblical standards, when the Bible is given to them of course they will be pricked in their hearts! They will be convicted, not so much because the person convicted them, but because GOD convicted them.
Telling someone that another group of sinners will go to hell because they are sinners against their creator is not wrong on my or Iggy's part.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an example unto those that after should live ungodly; 2Pe 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds);
Time and time again Jesus, Paul, Peter and many of the old time preachers/teachers said things like this, and many times they were rebuked by people who called them haters and evil speakers, as do you. The Jews hung Jesus up on a cross for this type of thing! Can Christians today expect different? I am learning not to let remarks such as ^ effect me because it's just not worth it to get angry.
Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. Mat 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household? Mat 10:26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. Mat 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
The Bible does teach what ^ just said, and those "sickos" such as the Crusaders, Pilgrims who pushed back the Indians, etc is the exception. Those who do not love everyone as themselves are not true Christians but instead of Christian apostates (of which I have been guilty of being in the past)! The Koran teaches death to the infidels and those who believe the scriptures! Those who do not obey this evil teaching and say they are Muslims are not true Muslims but instead Muslim apostates! It's a simple as that.
In a final comment, I'd like to announce that Jude must have been hypocrite when he said the following:
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jud 1:8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
He was openly saying that those who were once Christians but have left the way are going to be sent to hell, as are angels who take up with Satan as well as fornicators and sodomites (homosexuals). It is not sinful to say someone who sins deserves judgment that God states in the Bible, as has been proved time and time again in the Bible. We do NOT, however go right up to the face of the accuser and say "you go to hell, infidel!" which is what true Muslims (and Obama's preacher) does.
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Post by darthdodo on Apr 6, 2008 14:09:34 GMT -8
I also want to point out that I never meant that ALL Muslims are ready to blow you up, but there are a lot. The peaceful ones are the exception. But I must agree there are those who aren't murderers. It seems to me some people have taken that impression from what I've said.
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Post by Jedi Knight Taeris on Apr 6, 2008 14:09:35 GMT -8
Then by your standards there has never been a true christian. Thats just pathetic.
Now to get BACK ON TOPIC. Anybody hear about this random guy (From like Georgia or Florida) Who is planning on running as a Libitarian or something like that?
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Post by darthdodo on Apr 6, 2008 14:38:37 GMT -8
Then by your standards there has never been a true christian. Thats just pathetic. Now to get BACK ON TOPIC. Anybody hear about this random guy (From like Georgia or Florida) Who is planning on running as a Libitarian or something like that? We have all sinned, I know that. But Christianity is about stepping out of sin and asking God to save his and sanctify us (cleanse sin out of us) and then save us day by day from temptation through the power of the Holy Spirit. Doesn't mean we'll never sin again, but it does mean that through Jesus Christ we don't have to be subject to chronic sin addiction. Sin in our lives, as Christians, should be the rarity, not the norm. If you're blowing other's up with a bomb then you're not a Christian. And no, not ever Christian is compelled to murder. I'll speak with you on this topic in PM, so we can get back on topic.
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