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Sodomy
Oct 26, 2007 13:53:29 GMT -8
Post by jmcmatt on Oct 26, 2007 13:53:29 GMT -8
I can't see as how the almighty Creator would be pleased with the mocking of everything that is said here. I can't see how he'd be pleased with you assuming you're too good to be friends with people that don't believe exactly like you do. For the record, for everyone else, I am no longer talking to Mel. He has admitted to stealing "The Bourne Ultimatum," so in order for him to feel convicted I am no longer talking to him.
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Sodomy
Oct 26, 2007 18:10:17 GMT -8
Post by Jango Reiss on Oct 26, 2007 18:10:17 GMT -8
I can't see as how the almighty Creator would be pleased with the mocking of everything that is said here. I can't see how he'd be pleased with you assuming you're too good to be friends with people that don't believe exactly like you do. For the record, for everyone else, I am no longer talking to Mel. He has admitted to stealing "The Bourne Ultimatum," so in order for him to feel convicted I am no longer talking to him. I agree and support this post.
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Sodomy
Oct 26, 2007 19:36:42 GMT -8
Post by Soleia Reiss on Oct 26, 2007 19:36:42 GMT -8
Unless you can show me a verse that says it, that's a purely hypothetical situation. And let me ask you this. Say a close friend of yours told you they were gay. You tell that person that despite your (lets say really close) friendship, you're going to end it purely due to that fact, and can't hang out with him/her anymore. Can you truly tell yourself that you're being an example and showing the light of God? I'm not saying that if my friend came to me and told me he/she was gay, I'd say "YOU SINNER! I can't talk to you anymore." What I'd do is -well, first off all, I'd feel really sad for that person- take my friend to the bible and point out the verses that say homosexuality is wrong, then show them the scriptures that say we can overcome through Jesus Christ. From that point on how much time I spent with that person would really have to be a Spirit led thing, I would be open to the Spirit, ready to say whatever God wanted me to say to my friend. I would work with that friend out of love and a desire to see them live the best life possible for as long as God led me to. There would come a point though where one of two things would happen, either they would show some openness to the truth and begin to change, or they'd harden their heart to the truth and close themselves off; if the former then I would continue to spend time with them, encourage them, and help them; if the latter, then reluctantly and sadly I would back off and let them live the lifestyle they've chosen, but I couldn't take part in it. I couldn't remain yoked with an unbeliever, because if I'm yoked with someone, I go where they do. If they're not heading the direction I am (toward godliness), then I'd have to head the direction they are (sinfulness), we couldn't head in separate directions if we were yoked together. If I'm not influencing them, they'll influence me. I probably wouldn't stop talking to them altogether on occasssion to let them know that I do care and incase a door of opportunity opened, but I wouldn't consider myself a close friend of theirs anymore. "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." Ephesians 5:11 There's a difference between staying in contact with a sinner for the sake of reaching out but not conforming to their lifestyle, and staying in contact with a sinner for the sake of hanging out and accepting their lifestyle. But you can only reach out for so long, either they'll open themselves, or close themselves. Sometimes you do have to back off even though it'll hurt and just pray for them, and go where the Lord leads you next. Then also, in many cases I think sinners won't want to be friends with you if you keep ministering to them, because it'll bother their conscience and if they don't want to change they won't want to hear it, so they won't want to talk to you. "Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." James 4:4 I care about you guys, I'm certainly not saying this stuff to be mean or anything, I'm just pointin' to what the bible says. We can't desregard what God says on account of the way we think things ought to be. And Ulan, I'm not saying that you're not reaching out or ministering to these friends of yours, I don't know that, I'm just explaining what I believe based on what the bible says.
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Sodomy
Oct 26, 2007 20:44:57 GMT -8
Post by TFE on Oct 26, 2007 20:44:57 GMT -8
Mel, you have become intolerable to me. Enjoy life.
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Sodomy
Oct 26, 2007 20:46:58 GMT -8
Post by jmcmatt on Oct 26, 2007 20:46:58 GMT -8
Mel, you have become intolerable to me. Enjoy life. My "friggin' awesome-o-meter" is beeping.
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Sodomy
Oct 26, 2007 21:53:29 GMT -8
Post by Jango Reiss on Oct 26, 2007 21:53:29 GMT -8
Mel, you have become intolerable to me. Enjoy life. My "friggin' awesome-o-meter" is beeping. Mine blew up cause it reached the maximum level and still exceeded it.
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Sodomy
Oct 27, 2007 10:46:21 GMT -8
Post by Soleia Reiss on Oct 27, 2007 10:46:21 GMT -8
Also, that's not at all what the verses I posted meant. Actually, what he's doing is pointing out the illogic of your argument. He's saying that in order to do what you're telling us to do, we'd need to remove ourselves from the world. If I was saying that it's wrong to talk to sinners, then yes my arguement would be very illogical; all I'm saying is that it's scripturally wrong to fellowship and be yoked with them in a relationship and accept their sinful lifestyle (even if we don't live it ourselves). 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world... for then must ye needs go out of the world. Paraphrased: "I told you not to keep company with sinners, but not to altogether avoid all the sinners in the world, for in order to do that you would have to leave the world." We can't avoid them altogether because we work with them, live among them, go to school with them, we most likely can't leave the house without bumping into them, but there is a difference between acceptance and communication. Jesus spoke with sinners, but He didn't accept or condone their lifestyle, He reproved them, and that is the example we are to follow. We can interact with people without standing with them. "Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful." Psalm 1:1 I'm sorry if I came across like I was saying it's wrong to even talk to sinners, that's not what I meant. I hope this clears things up.
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Sodomy
Oct 28, 2007 13:26:31 GMT -8
Post by darthdodo on Oct 28, 2007 13:26:31 GMT -8
*sigh* It appears that I have been accused of something without proper knowing of the circumstances behind it. It also appears that I'm undergoing persecution. And it also appears that you guys have hardened your hearts against this. But check your motive for not thinking about the doctrine of not staying away from sinners... I doubt it's to be kind to those who sin because you can't even be kind to me, a Christian! The only other logical reason would be because you can't keep away from sinners because you're conformed to them too much. You accept their lifestyle too much. If you didn't then you'd not spend as much time around them.
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Sodomy
Oct 28, 2007 14:30:18 GMT -8
Post by jmcmatt on Oct 28, 2007 14:30:18 GMT -8
*sigh* It appears that I have been accused of something without proper knowing of the circumstances behind it. It also appears that I'm undergoing persecution. And it also appears that you guys have hardened your hearts against this. I now know the circumstances, and I still agree with what I said earlier. But check your motive for not thinking about the doctrine of not staying away from sinners... I doubt it's to be kind to those who sin because you can't even be kind to me, a Christian! The only other logical reason would be because you can't keep away from sinners because you're conformed to them too much. You accept their lifestyle too much. If you didn't then you'd not spend as much time around them. I'm not kind to you because you think you're perfect enough to be able to scoff at anyone that points out a flaw of yours and yet still point out and condemn everyone else for theirs. You have a very limited sense of logic that apparently encompasses only your own opinions. I can't speak for anyone else, but my reason for not refusing to talk to people that are "beneath" me is that I prefer to base my Christianity off Christ, not off of "early Christians" that were so intolerant that they are pretty much non-exsistant beyond the Amish, the Mormons, and 3 churches in North Carolina. The Jesus I grew up with, the one I decided to base my life and religion on, is the one that forgave people, and defended people even though the "religious" people didn't think they deserved the time of day. From my perspective, you're the idiot trying to throw rocks. When you are able to live your life completely without sin, and stealing a copyrighted movie is a sin by the way, then you can throw rocks and scream for damnation all you want. Until then, it would behoove you to come down from your ivory tower and maybe try to act like Jesus a little more and like your pastor a little less. Following suit, I've passed my tolerance level for you. You can quote my post and throw all the rocks you want, but I'm done with you.
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Sodomy
Oct 29, 2007 6:19:50 GMT -8
Post by darthdodo on Oct 29, 2007 6:19:50 GMT -8
When I said early Christians I meant Paul, Timothy, etc. I think it's safe to base my life on the New Testament. Including Jesus's teachings, which do NOT contradict those of Paul. Reason being? Paul was inspired by God.
There are things in Paul's letters that plainly state against a LOT of cultural things today. But the church has tried to get more members and their doing that by becoming more like the world. So now basically everyone (including "Christians") dress immodestly and become addicted to everything under the sun. Then they dare to come back and say "well I'm under the blood of Christ". Then they continue in their sin! If you want to be a Christian you need to live by the standard. You need to live like one, instead of like the world!
Now me "stealing" The Bourne Ultimatum (watching it on the internet) I fail to see what's wrong with it. Movies are shown on TV all the time and there are devices called VHS and DVD recorders and TiVo that take films off the TV so you can watch them over and over? Is that not stealing as well? I don't see how watching a film off the internet like once or twice is going to.
Now that was my thinking a few weeks ago. My thinking since then has changed and I've decided not to do that. I tried to tell Ulan that but he abruptly left me, came here, and tattled on me just for revenge.
And for having such a strong opinion against staying away from sinners, he sure does do a good job of it. I'm a Christian. I've made a few mistakes, I will admit. You speak of forgiveness and not throwing the first stone, but you do it yourself and refuse to forgive me.
I am trying to do better and I've prayed to God and I am doing better. Some of my old problems I use to have I have no more. I failed to see the sin of watching Ultimatum on the internet before, but now I realize it.
Also I tend to remember talking to you (Ulan) on MSN and you told me (while you were at a hotel) that your girlfriend stopped by. Then you began to tell me how she was removing her shirt and about to have sex with you. Then after a week or so you finally told me your were joking... fantasizing about sex then lying about it. Don't dare speak to me about hypocrisy.
Also I seem to remember hearing that you left Christianity and gave up your prior doctrines.
And if writing this is to somehow gain your "friendship" back, then don't count on it. I could care less about talking to you, Justin or Chris anymore.
The three of you have become a bad influence on my life (Ulan, you are a better influence, than the other two I will admit.)
Point being, I've taken Ultimatum off my PC and have decided not to watch it anymore until I buy the DVD, and I've said that to you 3 times but you still don't forgive me. Stop telling me about forgiveness and try to do it yourself.
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Sodomy
Oct 29, 2007 14:39:58 GMT -8
Post by Nathan Jey'Daan on Oct 29, 2007 14:39:58 GMT -8
Also I tend to remember talking to you (Ulan) on MSN and you told me (while you were at a hotel) that your girlfriend stopped by. Then you began to tell me how she was removing her shirt and about to have sex with you. Then after a week or so you finally told me your were joking... fantasizing about sex then lying about it. Don't dare speak to me about hypocrisy. Says the guy who fantasized about his crush doing a striptease for him. >_<
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Sodomy
Oct 29, 2007 14:50:42 GMT -8
Post by darthdodo on Oct 29, 2007 14:50:42 GMT -8
That was a long time ago and I've asked you to forgive me MULTIPLE times. Weeks later I asked you to forgive me and got my life straightened out. But yet you CONTINUE to remind me of that, and each time I ask you to forgive me for talking to you about that!
But more importantly I asked God to forgive me and I beleive he has, now please stop reminding me of that!
You people yell at me about forgiveness, but yet you fail to forgive me of my past! I am TRYING to live right and you guys reminding me of my past sins EVERY day almost is NOT helping!
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Sodomy
Oct 29, 2007 19:15:05 GMT -8
Post by Jango Reiss on Oct 29, 2007 19:15:05 GMT -8
Have I mentioned how much I love this thread?
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Sodomy
Oct 29, 2007 19:29:52 GMT -8
Post by jmcmatt on Oct 29, 2007 19:29:52 GMT -8
It's like a helldump.
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Sodomy
Oct 29, 2007 19:32:02 GMT -8
Post by Jango Reiss on Oct 29, 2007 19:32:02 GMT -8
Helldumps are awesome, so that's fine with me.
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